The Do-It-Yourself Religion

[Empress Palpatine]

I had someone ask me this:

"should i start a new thread or simply ask you here?
if i amy, well then how do percieve, or what do you think about, the topic of god and in the sense of 'good and evil'? and do you consider anything of an afterlife to be true or more in the sense of a circle with reincarnation persay?"-Darth Relek

I think there is a tendency to make God too much like a person like us. This is probably because of the way most people are raised. God has all our human traits. He gets angry. He gets jealous. He plays the world like a chess board. Calling it "The Force" is better because it is a reminder not to anthropomorphize too much. The ultimate creative entity is very far removed from humanness, and in my experience, does not relate to a lot of human issues. I do think it has some form of consciousness, but it is a strange and alien consciousness. In my personal experience, it seems to have some feeling of good and bad, but not exactly they way religious people usually think. It could care less about ritual or even being worshiped in some particular way. It seems as mystified about human consciousness as we are about it. I get the impression the universe was some sort of grand experiment, like it mixed up a few elements and decided to see what would come out. It was not carefully planned. I think it pushed along the process of evolution; then eventually, we happened. It could even be that it tried out a billion universes before it got this one. That I can't be sure.

There was a time before good and evil as we know it existed. There was at first clashing forces, mostly extremes. There was extreme heat (of the Big Bang) and extreme cold (absolute zero). There was particles forming into atoms and atoms clumping together to make up matter and mass and gravity. There was electromagnetism and other forces. For life to happen, we needed balance between all these forces; not too hot, not too cold, not too this, not too that. Good came to mean that which promotes life. So, protecting one's fellow tribe members or nurturing children became thought of as good. The Force, being that it wants a living and not a lifeless dead planet, would want to promote such good. But then, good is a point of view (Palpatine); so, sometimes a ruthless tough leader is needed to eliminate what is corrupt. The Sith have a cleansing role.

I think reincarnation does happen, but I do not think the rules are as set and exacting as the Hindus would like to say. It can be a bit chaotic and a being can just land somewhere. Sometimes a being joins the world of energy rather than become a being of flesh again. I do believe there are alternate realities and they can be populated with their own kind of life; and it may be possible to cross from one to another. What we call "ghosts" are probably on a plane or brane just next to ours. I think certain things can hop over to other planes, electromagnetism for example. Matter is bound to this plane. A part of us is one and a part of us is the other; so part of us can contact other planes (that which is electromagnetic in us) and part of us is stuck here (our material bodies.)

Religions to me are just tools at best. They all have correct and incorrect material and some are better than others. I think one can take parts of different ones and come up with their own unique mix

This is my impression at present. Feel free to discuss.

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

I believe in the Multi-verse idea and according to Richard Feynman. This is the idea of multiple histories. According to Stephen Hawking this is now considered scientific fact. These multiple histories are determined by the probability curve. I am waiting for the unified theory which unites everything. This unified theory combines the universe according to Richard Feynman and the world of Quantum Mechanics with Relativity as expressed by Albert Einstein. At present String Theory comes the closest. As to how I see "God" as Hawking said it "He(God) is a consummate gambler. God always plays dice. This idea is based on the fact that there are many universes that formed and had their "Big Bang" and shortly after promptly went into "Big Crunch" mode meaning it blew outward only to suddenly go back into reverse and race back to where it first banged out. On the other end is universes that have a "Big Bang" and then continue to expand forever until becoming elementary particles. These universes have too little gravity and the electromagnetic force makes them keep expanding to oblivion. Both extremes are universes that are out of balance and there fore does not work. It is the middle style universes that work. These universes have the "Big Bang" and expand but there is enough gravity to lock us into a sphere finite and unbounded. Our instruments have yet to "see" out side of our Time-Space Continuum. No one has yet to know what happened to lead up to the "Big Bang". Stephen Hawking is working on both. Hawking will come up with a theory but what we are waiting is the lab proof. According to the String Theorists out side of the Time-Space Continuum is "Shards Of Strings" another wards tiny bits of vibrating energy in the billions to the power of a very "Big" number. Whether this field of vibrating energy has a consciousness is yet to be proven. But this energy field is the closest scientific candidate for the position of God. The question now is; Does this energy field have the capability of thought? Here is where Forces of the universe end up.

[Empress Palpatine]

In the beginning....

It would be assumed that what we call "the Force" or "God" was at the beginning. Whether or not it is a conscious being is unproven but is open to personal interpretation. Personally, I think it does have a consciousness. This entity had to start at the beginning of everything else. In a sense, it had to "invent" new realities other than itself. Before it made objects and life forms, it had to make reality itself. Even dimension itself had to be made (or formed). It made three of them (at least for our universe). That would be like the painter first stretching the canvass. "Space" is something that had to be formed. Even Time had to be made. We take it for granted that those two things were always there, but they were not.

I never actually thought about that as much until recently. It comes from feeling the edges of the "box" one lives in. It is like discovering that one lives in a "box." Imagine a big fish tank that has all sorts of structures inside where the fish can swim. It is a whole underwater landscape. For a time a fish thinks this is the ultimate reality. Then his nose hits a barrier (the glass). He may see weird shadows beyond it but can't interpret what they are. He just knows that suddenly his world has a barrier and he is feeling along the edge. This would lead to great speculation in the fishworld. "What else is there?" they would ask each other. If fish were like us, they would invent some sort of religion that best explains it.

As far as religious explanations, I like the Kabbalist one the best. God starts out as some form of primal energy and even God Himself evolves along with the process of creation. He first hollows out a space and then fills it with energies of the ten sepiroth. I like the fact that in this account, He first makes the space. Many religions never consider that. Then the next stage is how one energy divides into ten; and then after a long succession of combinations and changes, matter is formed. The Kabbalistic account is the closest to modern scientific theories. The Norse is very close also.

I think it is quite fascinating how close String Theory is to Kabbalah. String theorists propose 10 dimensions that correspond nicely to the 10 sepiroth. There is one added dimension, number 11, and that fits the 11th in String Theory-a more mysterious dimension.

[Empress Palpatine]

I am particularly fascinated by any religious account that has an amazing parallel to any of the new scientific theories. It gives credit to the sensings and instincts of those religions because they were around and recorded before the new scientific theories were proposed.

Years a go I was fundamentalist Christian. Later I tried out various religions looking for the right one. Later, I compared religions, not looking for the right "one" but for the common threads. Recently, I am comparing them to science. Science is the final measuring rod. If it fits, one is getting closer to the truth.

Whoever this God is, "He" was not at all concerned with the goings on of people. In the scheme of things, we came along much later, almost an afterthought. He spent billions of years on forces and then on stars and planets. There was no hurry. It all took a very long time. There was no rush to get to us.

The Masons called God "The Grand Architect." They made a connection between "God" and "Geometry." It seems they were right because anybody who looks at the nuts and bolts of reality finds lots of math. String theorists delve into very complex math. The construct called "timespace" is all math. The balance of the forces in atoms is mathy too. One would have to assume that God is first a mathematician before he became anything else.

I can't do that sort of math. I am one of those people that forgot all my high school algebra over the years. I have to take scientists word for it when it comes to that sort of thing. I did, however, get a certain feeling when in deep meditation and feeling a certain aspect of the Force. The Force has a "V'Ger" feel (first Star Trek movie). The God/Force/Entity feels like a big Spock. Perhaps that is how my soul perceives something that does math.

I guess it makes sense. Whatever or whoever this God is, he spent billions of years figuring out the structure of reality. He had to figure the proportions of the various forces in order that atoms could hold together and clump up to make matter. Gravity had to be just so as to its strength. If too strong, the universe would crunch together. If too weak, all the stuff would spread out and not cohere. Who knows how many failed universes happened until it was got right.

Some of the Kabbalists actually theorized as to why God would even make a world and make us. They say it was more a need in God than in us. God was asking, "Is there more?" Most religions view God as complete and needing nothing, but it could be that God is the one needing. He is evolving as we do. (Calling God a "He" is only for convenience). God has no gender.

[reaver]

*I am only expressing my ideas*
In my mind this "God" exists only to coddle our minds. In many references "God" is referred to as a "he", not a "she" or an "it", in which case that is the why "God" is referenced as having human qualities because we humans know of no other higher being. In the generations of time that passed before the declared words of Jesus were written down, there very well could have been "tampering" of that certain text. Human nature, has a tendency to believe what we want to hear and not what we should. So, in that gap of time, I believe that some of Jesus's followers wrote down his words, but later added or amended their own. They did this because they felt that more followers could be gained this way. To make false promises of a grand orater in order to sway the masses. Jesus did not die for our sins (evil) he died because it was fate, the Romans didn't like him and put him to the sword. His followers would later change a few things to make him seem divine, and when he "rose from the dead" it was declared a miracle.

Going further into history, think of all the jealous power struggles that went on throughout the Christian churches. They did not want to share power, so they in turn used it to convert those willing or purge their "heretical" thoughts and lives.

Fast forward into the present and into reality, and we have two opposing sides West vs. Radical Islam. I find it kind of funny how most Muslims are moderate but whenever the West bombs a few terrorists they are up in arms and burning flags. So, we must play the "apology card" in order to appease the world. I'm sick of humanity and its defective system of trying to care too much. Let it all burn and like the phoenix rise again.

[Aeturnum]

I honestly have no religion. I will believe what I want to believe. And what I believe that God is the Force. Not the personified version, but more like he/she is everything and flows through everything. It is as simple as that in my opinion. I hope that this did not offend anyone.

[Jedi Archivist Kethrim]

I am Jewish, religiously- have been all my life, and still am. I have studied many religions, but Judaism seems to be what is most right for me. Most of my religion I got from my mother, who is Catholic, but that was the stuff that is common to both religions- belief in God, helping others, doing good deeds, etc. For me, God is the Force, and everything I've learned about being a Jedi meshes up pretty well with what I've learned in Judaism.

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Jan 10, 2010 22:33:46 GMT -6 Jedi Archivist Kethrim said:

I am Jewish, religiously- have been all my life, and still am. I have studied many religions, but Judaism seems to be what is most right for me. Most of my religion I got from my mother, who is Catholic, but that was the stuff that is common to both religions- belief in God, helping others, doing good deeds, etc. For me, God is the Force, and everything I've learned about being a Jedi meshes up pretty well with what I've learned in Judaism.

Jedi Archivist Kethrim
Just a little confused. If you got your religion from your mother who is Catholic, than where does the Jewish fit in? Is your dad the practicing Jewish person? Do you go to Synagogue or Mass? Are you Conservative, Reform, Orthodox or Hasidim?

Empress Palpatine
In your example about the fish in a fish tank, I could not help but think of the movie "Men In Black II" because you find out at the end of the movie that we all live in a big locker. This was a funny way of stating how our universe is. It definitely gives a light sided look at relativity and our three dimensional universe.

[Jedi Archivist Kethrim]

Yes, my father is Jewish; my parents decided that they wanted to raise their children Jewish. It's just that my mother had more to do with instilling a sense of faith in me. My father was raised Conservative, and we went to a Conservative synagogue until I was six, then switched to a Reform synagogue, so I am Reform.

[Darth Frigus]

I was Orthodox Christian...now that I developed some sense, I thought about it and here are my final thoughts:
All European people - Slavic, Greek, Norse... - were paganistic.Most of us accepted Christianity, while less accepted Islam during the Turkish conquest.I honestly don't believe in god(s) as entity/ies."God is everywhere...it's not conciouss, it cannot think but it affects everything with it's presence!It's no old man with magic powers, sitting in the sky, it's something that cannot be described...".A quote from an anonymous person from "Mass Effect".That is exactly my opinion.God is no entity,almighty, perfect with no negative traits - it is this energy - the Force, Chi, Flow, whatever we chose to call it.
As for misusing of religion for one's needs and how it affects others, these songs say everything:




EDIT:
I now remembered a cover of one of the groups albums:

See water emerging form the right hand and the black flame from the left?Yang, positive energy, is associated with the right side of the body and yin, negative energy, is associated with the left.It's a full hit.

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Feb 5, 2010 22:33:27 GMT -6 Jedi Archivist Kethrim said:

Yes, my father is Jewish; my parents decided that they wanted to raise their children Jewish. It's just that my mother had more to do with instilling a sense of faith in me. My father was raised Conservative, and we went to a Conservative synagogue until I was six, then switched to a Reform synagogue, so I am Reform.

I was born Catholic but then went protestant. I later tried the Conservative Synagogue which I liked the best because at least when the Rabbi gave a sermon on the Abraham story about how Isaac was to be sacrificed at least the Jewish version stated that Isaac represented Abraham's ego. So at least Abraham is seen as sacrificing his ego not a flesh and blood person his son. The Protestant version states that "God" expected Abraham to commit murder of his own child. This version of God makes him a sadistic being, quite the psychopath. So here to me the Jewish people was kinder. Reform, what I know of them is they are even more relaxed and gentle than the Conservative Synagogue. I am glad to hear that you found a religious home.

I always in principle support everyone's right to choose the faith or lack there of, of each individual persons choosing. As long as the religion does not force itself on others. If the religion is just an arm of the oppressor or used as a dominance hierarchy thing than I am against that religion. I believe in everyone's right to do their own searching that is why I still give religious answers to questions about certain practices even though I myself am predominantly in the atheist camp. But I do not believe in forcing others to become atheists. I freely talk about atheist subjects but I allow others to search for themselves whether to be a believer in religion like Christianity, Paganism or Buddhism. I have read and studied many religions and magical practices so I can still impart information on these subjects. I at one time believed in all of these but life lead me to rethink everything Like Johannes Kepler I have learned that my favorite fantasy is not the facts of how the universe works and have adjusted my opinion to fit the facts as they presented themselves before me. Like my favorite physicist Carl Sagan, I ask myself did it happen in fact. So for me God is something I await science to prove by lab test and skeptically analyzed. I admit the atheists do not have all the answers especially pre-Big Bang or what is out side of the Time-Space Continuum. But religionists claim a being that gets involved in your life when there is no evidence to prove direct intervention by God. "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof". Carl Sagan

Darth Frigus
Songs that say it all, you reminded me of an older group called Tin-Buck-Three. They wrote a song called "Roaming Cadillac Church". The chorus went like this; "No need watching the road signs when you drive in his automobile because we are all back seat drivers and there is nobody at the wheel". So that says it all. I believe as Sagan stated Biology and history are more arbitrary and the roll of the dice predominates. History and biology is more like Quantum Mechanics and the Quantum cafe. The Quantum world is more unpredictable. Here physics is more stable because there are laws of physics which can not be changed. The only way around a law of physics is with another law of physics. Here the world of physics is stable like Einstein's Grid and all acts according to these laws but biology and history is more willy nilly compared to Physics.